TODAY'S TOPICS - HOMOSEXUALITY
In Genesis 19:1-13 God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for their wickedness, including the sin of homosexuality as we will see later.
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Deuteronomy 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
Romans 1:24-28 (24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: (25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. (26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error [perversion] which was meet. (28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; (emphasis and words in brackets are mine)
One commentator wrote concerning this passage, “In short, confusion about God breeds confusion about man, which breeds confusion about sexuality, which produces sexual confusion and chaos. Far from being, as was fondly imagined by many, an enlightened age of sexual freedom, Paul showed his contemporaries that they lived in a dark day of divine wrath.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [a person who allows himself to be sexually abused contrary to nature], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (words in brackets are mine)
1 Timothy 1:9-11 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; (11) According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
2 Peter 2:6-8 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; (7) And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (8) (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Now, you tell me. After reading these verses, does God condemn homosexuality? The answer is obviously yes. Yet, there are many people who will read these verses and deny that God condemns homosexuality. Therefore, I thought it best to let them speak for themselves in order to gain insight into their justification of the sin of sodomy [this is the Biblical term; homosexuality is too benign]. This will also give me the opportunity to refute their arguments. I came across an online magazine that did an interview with a liberal Canadian politician who is also a former minister. I chose this interview because it demonstrates how people try to use the Bible to justify the sodomite lifestyle and because the woman being interviewed is well respected for her education and 'Christian' views.
The Turning "is an online magazine that examines how spirituality can enrich modern life. Specifically, we're interested in whether Christianity can be a path to compassion, or whether it is has run out of steam, over-burdened by an addiction to power and self-righteous judgmentalism. We don't claim to have the answers. As relatively new Christians, we are still willing to ask uncomfortable questions about the faith. If it can't stand up to serious cross-examination, it won't keep our interest for long." Now you know the perspective of the magazine. Let's be clear: Christianity and the Bible have stood up to much tougher scrutiny and much tougher cross-examination than offered by The Turning and has always proved to be reliable and relevant. Regardless of their conclusions in any matter, Christianity and the Bible have and will withstand any attack and attempt to destroy them.
The following is the interview from the magazine entitled "Does the Bible Condemn Homosexuality? An Interview with Dr. Reverend Cheri DiNovo." My comments are interspersed throughout the interview and are marked as so.
As the debate rages over the legality and morality of same sex marriages, many Christians rely on the Bible as their guide. Many believe that the Bible clearly condemns homosexuality, and they provide specific passages to back up their claim. We decided to give the other side of the debate a chance to answer. So, we interviewed Dr Reverend Cheri DiNovo, a United Church Minister who has performed a dozen same-sex marriages in Canada. She has also written a PhD thesis on the subject of how Christianity deals with the outcasts of society. In this interview, we asked Dr Reverend DiNovo to explain her perspective on three often-quoted biblical passages that seem to condemn homosexuality.
[the first question was about Genesis 19 and Sodom and Gomorrah]
DINOVO: Well, first of all it’s important to remark that this passage is not about homosexuality. In fact, it has nothing to do with homosexuality. It’s about welcoming, it’s about the theology of hospitality, which is the great theology, biblically speaking, from the beginning of Genesis to the end of Revelations. So, always and everywhere, the bible tells us to be welcoming and hospitable to strangers, especially strangers who are not like us. So here come some strangers into your town, so what do you do with them. The great sin of Sodom, for which it was punished, is the abuse of the strangers. It has nothing to do with how they were abused. That is irrelevant to the story. Anything could have happened. It is the fact that they were abused at all that is the point of the story.
It is not a question of sexual ethics, because it is absurd to say that it’s okay to send your virgin daughters out to be gang-raped, but it’s not okay to have strangers gang-raped. And that would be an absurd reading of it, but that would be a literalist reading of it, if you want to take it at face value, without any thought involved. I think there’s a great deal of prevarication when talking about this. People just throw Sodom and Gomorrah out as if they know what it’s about. They either don’t know what it’s about or if they’ve actually studied the Bible in obvious detail, they’d see that it’s not about homosexuality. It’s a smokescreen.
[MY RESPONSE: Let’s let the Bible determine the sin of Sodom. God tells us exactly why He destroyed Sodom in Ezekiel 16:49-50, "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. (50) And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."
It is obvious from these verses that Sodom’s chief sin was pride, which led them to all sorts of evil including self-indulgence, idleness, oppressing the poor, a haughty spirit that led them to shamelessly parade their sin before God. God adds to that they also committed abomination before Him, which is the sin of sodomy and those who practiced this sin were called sodomites (1 Kings 14:24, 15:12, 22:46; 2 Kings 23:7). Isaiah 3:9 reads, "The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves." Sodom had thumbed its nose at God. They had no restraints and plenty of idle time to do whatever their lusts led them to do. There was no shame and they paraded their sin before God and practiced their sin in the streets.
To say that the great sin of Sodom was the abuse of strangers is simply wrong. When God listed the sins of Sodom He didn't even mention their lack of hospitality or their attempted abuse of the strangers. Also, I have never heard or read anyone who said that it was right for Lot to offer his daughters. I cannot explain why Lot would even think of that, but no one believes it was right. Sodom, though blessed by God, threw off the restraints of religion and morality and God gave them over to reprobate minds. This led to all kinds of wickedness, the chief of which was the sin that now bears the name of the city, sodomy.]
DINOVO: …another thing to point out about the biblical period: there was no such thing as homosexuality in the biblical era, neither in the Hebrew scripture era nor in the New Testament era. Homosexuality did not exist as a term or as a person. Homosexuality as a person was invented in the nineteenth century, as a pathology.
At the time the Bible was written, both the Hebrew scripture and the New Testament, homosexual acts were just variations of sexual acts. We remember that during the Greek era when the New Testament was written, homosexuality between an older man and a younger man was seen as a very common form of mentoring. It was average; it was not frowned upon. Where we see Paul and others in the New Testament railing about what seems like homosexuality, what they’re actually railing about is manipulation of youth. It’s really more pedophilia that they‘re railing at in that context, especially among the Greeks themselves and the whole Greek mythic structure. They’re railing against the Greek way of life. And part of that way of life was this initiation procedure with young boys, and it’s really pedophilia, and the kind of power imbalance which that implies is really the problem.
So, homosexuality is really a bad translation in this context. There were no ‘homosexuals’ at that time, there were only adults having sex in various ways, and one of those was having sex with their own gender.
[MY RESPONSE: This is simply absurd. Men are abusing boys and Paul is railing against manipulation of youth. God is certainly against the manipulation of youth, but He is also against the sin of sodomy. To say that homosexuality didn’t exist until the 19th century is just plain dumb. People may not have called the act homosexuality or the person a homosexual, but the practice certainly existed and it was called sodomy and those who practiced it were called by the Biblical term of sodomite.
Notice Paul’s condemnation of the act in the NT. Does this sound like Paul is railing against manipulation of youth? 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [a person who allows himself to be sexually abused contrary to nature], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual]" (emphasis and words in brackets are mine). God says that man who gives himself over to be abused by man and the men who abuse him shall not inherit the kingdom of God. That says nothing about manipulation of youth.]
THE TURNING: Okay, well, let's continue our march through the Bible, and get to Leviticus, where God says to Moses, among many other things, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman, it is an abomination."
DINOVO: Okay, so, here you have the Jews differentiating themselves from the other great cultures of their day. In Leviticus you will find another six hundred strictures as well, including against eating shellfish, as well as spitting on the floor, [etc…]. There's all sorts of stuff there that we would now throw out, with very little thought. We would say, this is a people with very little in common with our people who have prohibitions for all sorts of strange reasons, and this would be of interest to a cultural anthropologist maybe, but it is certainly not anything we're going to live our lives by.
This is Rabbinical wisdom, this is not mine: the ban against homosexual sex acts is of the same order as not eating shellfish. So, if the Religious Right condemned the eating of shellfish in the same breath as homosexual acts, then maybe they would have it in context.
What's really true about Leviticus, and what kosher is about, is being mindful. Mindfulness about what you do, how you do it and why you do it. Mindful about the fact that God is aware of what you are doing, and God is present in what you are doing, and so you do it in a spirit of holiness. That holiness is imbued in every moment of your life. So, when you’re washing your dishes, what fork you use, what you eat with, all of this has to do with God in some beautiful and brilliant way. So, it's not about what fork you use, it's not about who you sleep with, it's about the mindfulness in which you engage in sexual acts, it's not about eating shellfish, it's about the mindfulness of the food that you put into your mouth - where did it come from, what pain when into producing it. So, that's what Leviticus is about, and this is what gets lost.
[MY RESPONSE: Mrs. DiNovo would really like us to believe that eating shellfish is on par with sodomy. First of all, for the Jews there were acts that were not morally wrong but nevertheless barred them from participating in the rituals of Judaism. These acts included the eating of certain foods that God called unclean. These foods were considered off-limits, or detestable. The word translated 'abomination' as it relates to food meant that these foods were to be considered unclean or detestable by the Jews. The word translated 'abomination' concerning moral issues (idolatry, sexual sin) is a different Hebrew word meaning that the practice of the abominable sin was disgusting to God.
Also, the designation of unclean foods was abolished in the NT in Acts 10 when God gave Peter the dream concerning clean and unclean animals. God has never taken the label of abomination off of sodomy.]
THE TURNING: We've received a fair bit of mail at the magazine from people who read the Bible quite literally …
DINOVO: I wish they did! I wish they read it more literally, I wish they actually read it. My problem with literalists and fundamentalists is that they don't actually read it, because if they did, it would be very difficult to uphold these kinds of arguments, the hatred of homosexuals, for example. It simply isn't there. What they have done very successfully is taken one passage out of context, without studying it, and then used that to beat up their neighbors. I really wish people would study the bible more, it's not a question of studying it less, or being less literal. I wish people would actually study the words there, i.e., being a bit more literalist about it. That would lead to a whole different conclusion.
[MY RESPONSE: Us fundamentalists aren't the ones denying the Word of God. seeking to justify our sins, or taking these verses out of context. Born again believers do not hate homosexuals. In fact, we are the ones who really love all sinners, including sodomites, because we will tell them the truth. We will tell them that they have sinned against a holy God just as all men have and they deserve to die and spend eternity in hell. We will tell them God loved them so much He sent His Son Jesus Christ to die for them and pay the penalty for all of their sins, including sodomy. We will tell them if they turn from their sin and receive Jesus they will be forgiven and receive eternal life and the Holy Spirit will indwell them and give them victory over their sin.]
THE TURNING: Well, let's jump ahead then to the New Testament. In Corinthians there is a section which reads: “Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Do not be deceived, neither fornicators nor idolaters or adulterers nor homosexuals nor sodomites nor thieves nor covetous nor drunkards nor revilers nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." ( 9-10) Homosexuals are clearly mentioned, at least in this translation. What is this text trying to say?
DINOVO: What if all of our emails which we sent to our friends would be saved for two thousand years, collated, put together as a series of letters, written basically as holy scripture? There'd be some pretty wacky stuff in them. And some of our emails were clearly meant for particular people at a particular time, for a particular situation.
The letter to the people at Corinth was exactly that - written at a particular time, to a particular people, in a particular situation.
At Corinth they were having basically orgiastic meetings, people kind of blending in an interesting (sexual) way, taking what was in the old pagan religions and in the new Christian story. Among the Greeks, there were temple prostitutes, and so here in Corinth you had this decidedly un-Jewish living out of the story! There were wild parties, fornication and all sorts of wild things happening. So Paul is kind of ranting at them here, saying clean up your act, this is not what church should be about. Now, again, we have to remember that Paul himself is a human, this is not the word of God. This is the word of a first-century male, and he is writing in a patriarchy, and he is writing to a culture that he finds loathsome as a Jew. He grew up with Leviticus, where you’re supposed to be mindful of everything you did, with rigid rules about everything they did. And although he railed against the Pharisees for doing that, he was also offended by the Greeks who had thrown all of those rules out - "Do what you want, let’s party, let's blast!" So, here he is trying to reign in what has become a little too Greek for him. He also says that women shouldn't speak at church, and he seems to support slavery in one passage. Again, do we need to accept that? Of course not, it's ludicrous.
[MY RESPONSE: No one is advocating acceptance of slavery, including Paul. Paul was not addressing slavery as we know it, but servitude - people who for one reason or another had become legal servants of others. As for the women speaking in church, that’s an issue for another day. Paul’s prohibition was against women teaching men and usurping authority, as well as causing confusion in the church concerning the issue of tongues and prophecy.
Notice how easily Mrs. DiNovo dismisses the Bible in two ways, (1) by saying it is irrelevant for today and (2) by saying it is not the Word of God. Both statements are wrong. The Bible is a timeless book. It is for all people of all time for all cultures. I am willing to bet that Mrs. Dinovo accepts John 3:16 as the Word of God. My guess is she accepts the crucifixion and resurrection accounts as the Word of God. How do we know they weren’t written for first century Jews who were expecting a Messiah? Why do these passages have relevance for us today, but Paul’s condemnation of homosexuality is simply a rant by a 1st century Jewish male? The whole Bible is relevant for today and all time. 2 Timothy 3:16 says that all Scripture is inspired by God and all Scripture is beneficial or profitable in one of four ways - doctrine, reproof, correction, and/or instruction in righteousness.
Also, it is indeed the Word of God. I may write 10,000 emails but not one is inspired by God. The writers of the Bible were writing under the inspiration of God. They were penning God's Words. If you compare 2 Tim 3:16-17 and 2 Pet 3:15-16 you will see that Peter called Paul’s writings ‘Scripture’. This is not the ranting of a Jewish man against Greek influence in the church. These are the very Words of God for all generations. We can’t pick and choose what we believe to be the Word of God. It’s God’s Word from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. To not accept every Word as God’s Word is to reject all of it.]
THE TURNING: I wonder if we can end this by talking about where Christ himself would stand on this. Christ to my knowledge doesn't say anything about homosexuality or homosexual acts. However, he does say quite a lot about judgment and whether human beings should be judging each other.
DINOVO: Christ basically says, 'judge not'. That sums it all up - 'judge not'. Love thy neighbor as yourself. Well, your neighbor in an adulterer; your neighbor is a fornicator; your neighbor is a homosexual. This is your neighbor. Who do you think your neighbor is? Sometimes your neighbor is your enemy, this is the person you must love as yourself. Your neighbor is not the person who looks just like you and thinks just like you.
So, in light of that, what does it mean to love your neighbor? Does it mean to judge them, to harass them? To force them to change to become more like you? Absolutely not. Does it also mean to accept everything that your neighbor is doing? Not that either, because clearly, at some point, one draws the line. Jesus drew the line many times. He drew the line at stoning the adulterous woman. He made declarations in terms of justice. Certainly when you look at his ministry, it is based on justice and love.
THE TURNING: I saw a man on CNN the other night who is the father of a homosexual son, and this issue had split his family in two. His son was no longer welcome in the house, he said with apparent sincerity that he loves his son, as all fathers do. However, he felt his son's homosexual lifestyle was endangering the young man's soul. He couldn’t stand by as a father and look aside. What advice would you give that father in light of your reading of the Bible?
DINOVO: I always find it interesting that Christians can read the passages about not judging and then immediately do exactly that. I would immediately call the father's attention back to his own life, his own lifestyle, who he really is, and what he really did. In the same way as Jesus said, it's not even what you do, it's what you think. Okay, let's look at your thoughts now, and see if there's any sin there. And if there is any sin there, you had better pack up your stones and go home. To be biblical about it, he is judging, whether he wants to admit to it or not. And that is what all people do who hurt their own children. I mean, how horrible is that, to turn away from your own child, how unbiblical is that? So, is it loving, is it just? One would think as a community that is sitting together, praying together, that one would say no, it is neither loving nor just.
[MY RESPONSE: You knew this argument would show up eventually. All of this is right out of the liberal playbook. Anyone who says that homosexuality is wrong is guilty of violating Jesus’ command not to judge others. HOGWASH!
This command not to judge others includes the following areas: we should not judge motives; only God can read them; we should not judge by appearance (Joh 7:24; Jam 2:1-4); we should not judge those whose conscience leads them to do things that are not in themselves right or wrong (Rom 14:1-5); we should not judge the service of another Christian (1Co 4:1-5); and, we should not judge a fellow believer by speaking evil about him (Jam 4:11-12).
Sometimes these words of our Lord are misconstrued by people to prohibit all forms of judgment. No matter what happens, they piously say, “Judge not, that you be not judged.” But Jesus is not teaching that we are to be undiscerning Christians. He never intended that we abandon our critical faculty or discernment. The NT has many illustrations of legitimate judgment of the condition, conduct, or teaching of others. In addition, there are several areas in which the Christian is commanded to make a decision, to discriminate between good and bad or between good and best.
For example, Paul told the Galatians that if anyone, whether angel or apostle, came preaching another gospel they should be accursed. How could they obey this if they couldn't judge a preacher. Paul told the Corinthians to kick a man out of the church who had committed sexual sin. Were they guilty of violating the Lord's command not to judge? Absolutely not.
Jesus tells us in John 7:24 to judge righteous judgment, not according to appearance. Therefore, the command not to judge is not a blanket statement against forming an opinion about one’s words or actions. The prohibition is against judging people by outward appearance, before one knows all of the facts, and by our own standards. Righteous judgment means the judgment is based upon the Word of God, not my own personal standards, not by outward appearance only, and after all the facts are determined.
Also, Mrs. DiNovo is saying that anyone who has ever sinned can never pass judgment against any sinful act. That’s preposterous. I disobeyed my parents when I was a kid. Does that disqualify me from speaking out when my kids disobey me? I got drunk before I became a believer. Does that disqualify me from preaching against drunkenness? Absolutely not!
The fallacy of this argument is that people stand on tainted moral ground. This is true, we do. However, this is why we do not stand on our morality. The moral high ground from which we call sin ‘sin’ and right ‘right’ is the Word of God. It is not me stating that sodomy is sinful and telling the sodomite that he is a sinner. It is God. And He has the moral high ground.
God didn't write His Word in the sky. He gave it to us in a Book called the Holy Bible. And He wants us to read that Book and He wants parents to teach this Book to their kids so they can judge right and make good choices. He wants us to tell others what is in His Book so they can judge right and make good choices. And, God has called men to preach this Book and pass along what He says about the people and culture in which we live so they can do right and make choices that please God.
God does indeed condemn sodomy, as well as all sin. But God can forgive the sodomite, as well as all sinners, if they will simply turn from their sin and tune to Jesus Christ, the One who has "washed us from our sins in His own blood"; the One who was resurrected from the dead; the One who is seated on Heaven's throne waiting to save the repentant sinner; the One who is the only way to eternal life!]
See you next time. Dare to live Godly!
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